Identity Cards

[claireyorks]

Our ID Card issues have been taken up by the Eastern Daily Press (covers most of East Anglia).

I have been asked to give an interview. I am awaiting a few more details before agreeing. With such a short time to my surgery, I am a little reluctant, but this could prove a powerful opportunity.

Alison

Great You've been asked to do an interiew for Easter Daily Press, Alison.

Made me think of an idea I had earlier today, when I saw the Right Stuff advertised in my skyplus listings.Thought maybe we could try to get issue discussed on there, but wasn't sure whether to mention it, but they usually discuss human rights and things that disgust them that are going on in Uk, politicaly or not, more so than they do on any other mainstream tv station I've seen.Haven't seen it for a while, but i know the sort of things they discuss and the feelings views of the presenters on there so could think of mentioning the issue to them or asking them if theyd mention it.Know it's just channel 5 I think, maybe channel 4 but still quite mainstream and quite few people in general public would see it, and the word spreads to bring more support to our campaign and maybe extra help with any funding we need etc. Don't know if they would bring it up for discussion of course but think it might be worth a try contacting them to see if they would.

claire

[Robyn]

Hi Claire,

No probs Alison you're very welcome, I want to get the right documentation and stop them keeping our male details on database for everyone but ofcourse good for me too but I want I.D. cards and associated probs with data they keep on us after getting GRC solved for everyone

Please forgive me for picking this up, it is something which I always try to emphasise to people on another group that I am on. Please don't take this personally, I wish to just make a point of it now so that others joining the group or reading the posts refrain from similar mistakes.

This group is not solely for Transsexual Women. There are Transsexual Men and Women around and also there are many others who will join this group who may never have been assigned "Male" on their Birth Certificates in the first place.

Generally I try to include, on the Transsexual Group, references for people who started from either side of the divide. In a group such as this, the finishing line can become really blurred, hence the word "Spectrum" in the title.

I would suggest that people try to think either to word things in a manner to include, or specify where something is applicable in a particular situation.

Yours,
Robyn

[Reenie]

Personally, I don't have a problem when someone called "Claire" expresses concern about male details as I know that she is implying that a similar situation will apply to "Mike" (say), who is worried about his female details.

Then again, I don't have a problem with the "gentle nudge": this is what we're about...

Claire has come from tzone where there is an equal mix of MtF and FtM.

[claireyorks]

Thanks Reenie

I'm ok with what Robyn said. He made a good point and i accept what he's said.

I am well aware of why the word spectrum is used though.

My best friend is a gay male and I am a trans woman or mtof we are both very open minded and quite radical thinking on most things.

And we do and have discussed how there are so many variations using the word spectrum ourselves long before I saw it here.

No offense Robyn, just informing you that I know there are many different variations along the sexual/gender identity spectrum though gender identity spectrum is probably a better phrase.There are those who are anyway I'm aware of all the different variation and actually made a point of highlighting myself the way i said word pronouncing it more to my best friend earlier today of the word spectrum when I was telling him about this group so I pronounced the word deliberately with greater emphasise to show it is a group that covers all people along the gender spectrum which me and him have discussed many times before I ever came to tzone or gender spectrum.

Though Robyn mad a good point. But the only reason I word things like that is because it's so difficult to make sure it appears like you def include everyone in the way you word things.I will try to work out how I can word things to make sure people understand Im talking about the whole spectrum in future and that the legislation may affect them all.Though yes Reenie it could be read as just Im talking in mtof perspective because thats way I see things because can see probs from my side and other mtof I communicate with more easily, not to be selfish just thinking of me, but just cos its easier to see, and I want this legislation changed altered for everyone because I want best for everyone along gender spectrum, but could just be seen thats why talked from that perspective and could be read to mean it applies to ftom too.

[Robyn]

Hi Claire & Reenie,

Please forgive me with respect of pointing out what Claire had written. I purposefully also pointed out that this is something that does appear in other places. By highlighting it I was trying to illustrate how people can say things and accidentally exclude others.

The one bit I would take offence with myself is Claire's pronouns when responding on the thread in reference to myself. I would suggest that you take a look at my profile and proof check your posts before submitting.

Thank you,
Robyn

[claireyorks]

ok sorry Robyn did wonder myself which pronoun to use, yeh shouldve checked profile sorry. yeh did realise you were making point previously about it affecting all spectrum not just mtof to make sure everyone else didnt write anything which appeared like it didnt include everyone or where they didnt understand it did yes im well aware that when someone makes a point on a reply its to get everyone looking at reply to do right thing to inform everyone

[Robyn]

Hi Grace,

2. There is a possibility that I may have to carry a male ID card even though I am post op and never present as male. This seems ridiculous and may contravene the SDA!

Sorry for the delay in response to this, but I have been informed that a breach of the SDA would not be the case.

"There is a legal concept of implied repeal. This derives from the fundamental tenet of our constitution that Parliament is supreme. If Parliament passes an Act which conflicts with an earlier Act then the courts will interpret the conflicting earlier clause as repealed for the circumstances in which there is a conflict."

There are specific exceptions to the above statement, but they would not apply in this situation.

Yours,
Robyn

[Grace]

Hi Grace,

2. There is a possibility that I may have to carry a male ID card even though I am post op and never present as male. This seems ridiculous and may contravene the SDA!

Sorry for the delay in response to this, but I have been informed that a breach of the SDA would not be the case.

"There is a legal concept of implied repeal. This derives from the fundamental tenet of our constitution that Parliament is supreme. If Parliament passes an Act which conflicts with an earlier Act then the courts will interpret the conflicting earlier clause as repealed for the circumstances in which there is a conflict."

There are specific exceptions to the above statement, but they would not apply in this situation.

Yours,
Robyn

Thanks Robyn,

Just hoping and wondering....

Grace

[Pollik]

I met Ben Thom at the weekend. One of the things he seemed very confident about, in connection with the dual gender issue, was that we will be able to choose which will be our primary card, and that this would have a knock on protection for our passports and driving licenses. Although he trusts the assurances that he has received, he does recognise that they can get overlooked for many reasons, for example movement of staff. He told me that he will see if he can get something in writing.

[Alison]

I met Ben Thom at the weekend. One of the things he seemed very confident about, in connection with the dual gender issue, was that we will be able to choose which will be our primary card, and that this would have a knock on protection for our passports and driving licenses. Although he trusts the assurances that he has received, he does recognise that they can get overlooked for many reasons, for example movement of staff. He told me that he will see if he can get something in writing.

I was aware that assurances were given verbally, but then verbal assurances have been given around other legislation (GRA and medical requirements comes to mind) and have not turned into practice. My experience has always been that it is better to have the rights enshrined in law, than a contradictary verbal assurance.

While the suggested outcome would be of some benefit (there are other issues as well), it does contradict what the strict legal position says - specifically that the Primary card will be in the birth gender.

Obviously anything we can get to show intention is good - after all, if that is the intention, why doesn't the law say that?

Alison